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Incorrect Surname for Consuelo Yznaga

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dianatx
female
Messages : 24
While researching my ancestor I came across your website and realized that you have Consuelo Yznaga's surname as Consuelo Iznaga Clement.  Her legal name is Consuelo Yznaga.  Your site states...." Her Spanish name was in honor of her godmother, Maria Consuelo Iznaga Clement (1858–1909), a half-Cuban, half-American socialite who created a social stir a year earlier when she married the fortune-hunting George Montagu, Viscount Mandeville, a union of Old World and New World that caused the groom's father, the 7th Duke of Manchester, to openly wonder if his son and heir had married a "Red Indian." (Consuelo, Duchess of Manchester was also the basis of the character Conchita Closson in Edith Wharton's unfinished novel The Buccaneers.)" 
If you check the Wikipedia site for Consuelo Vanderbilt, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consuelo_Vanderbilt  the above description shows the name of her godmother as Consuelo Yznaga....
Consuelo's father's biography also shows Consuelo's name as Consuelo Yznaga, NOT Iznaga Clement.  https://books.google.com/books?id=CGRkHyO2JDQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=William+K+Vanderbilt&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCUQ6AEwAWoVChMIkYO0iI2gxwIVRPWACh09Ugv7#v=onepage&q=Consuelo%20yznaga&f=false.  Also, at the bottom of the page you reference the Source as Wikipedia.  Her Wikipedia page shows Consuelo Yznaga.  I am respectfully asking that you please correct the name FROM Consuelo Iznaga Clement  TO  Consuelo Yznaga.  Thank you, I hope I have been able to help maintain the integrity of your website.
jyb
jyb
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Could you please give the link (url) of the page where Consuelo Iznaga Clement appears?
Best wishes,

Jean-Yves BAXTER
GeneaNet

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dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Thank you for your prompt reply.  Listed below is the link to the webpage.

http://geneall.net/en/name/208915/george-victor-drogo-montagu-8th-duke-of-manchester/

Thank you so very much for your help.

Diana Yznaga Gomez
1gamingangel
1gamingangel
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Is Geneall.com the same as Geneanet? I've never heard of it before. Very interesting resource, either way! Thank you for sharing! :)
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
I am sooo sorry for the mistake.  This person who is changing the surname to Consuelo Iznaga has so polluted the Internet that I'm starting to get all the sites mixed-up.  :)  This is the link to your website  http://en.geneastar.org/genealogie/?refcelebrite=consuelovanderbiltc&celebrite=Consuelo+-VANDERBILT

If you check Consuelo Vanderbilt's Wikipedia page  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consuelo_Vanderbilt  you will find the same paragraph "Her Spanish name was in honor of her godmother, Maria Consuelo Iznaga Clement (1858–1909), a half-Cuban, half-American socialite who created a social stir a year earlier when she married the fortune-hunting George Montagu, Viscount Mandeville, a union of Old World and New World that caused the groom's father, the 7th Duke of Manchester, to openly wonder if his son and heir had married a "Red Indian." (Consuelo, Duchess of Manchester was also the basis of the character Conchita Closson in Edith Wharton's unfinished novel The Buccaneers.)" only with the correct spelling for Consuelo Yznaga.

Thank you for your help.'

Diana Yznaga Gomez
1gamingangel
1gamingangel
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No worries at all! I thought I would ask you to clarify because Jean-Yves, our Moderator, is checking in a tiny tiny bit less frequently as he is on vacation; it will help you get help faster to get this part worked out in the meantime.  :) I'm glad to know of that site, so it's a happy mistake, Yay!  8)

I hope you have a great day!
Meg
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Hi Meg,
I'm really hoping the changes can be made.  If you need additional links, I have many articles and books that show her name as Yznaga.

The person who is changing every imaginable site that mentions Consuelo Yznaga is doing so under misguided and incomplete information.  His theory is that there is no Y in the Basque language therefore all legal documents are null and void because HE says there is no Y in the Basque language.  While he is partially correct, he is not 100% correct, there is a Y in the Basque language.  Even if there wasn't a Y, this family CHOSE to change the name when he because a Naturalized Citizen.  This is the part the person is missing.....this was a CHOICE the father made not an error that they allowed to happen or a note-takers error.  Check out the Talk page on Consuelo Yznaga's Wikipedia page.  Interesting.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Consuelo_Montagu,_Duchess_of_Manchester

Thanks again,
Diana
izzy1911
izzy1911
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The correct spelling is Iznaga; there is no “Y” in Basque alphabet. “Y” is "I Griega" which is Greek I. It has nothing to do with Basques. Also in the 1700's and 1800's it was very common for words beginning with “I” to be written with a “Y” both in common words (Yglesia, Ysla) and Names (Ygnacio, Ybarra ...).
See http://meta.gipuzkoakultura.net/bitstream/10690/75278/1/AM_325284.pdf
Written by Fernando del Valle y Lersundi in 1911, noted Basque Historian.
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Jorge,
While some of these genealogy reports are correct in the basic fact…that the name was sometimes spelled with an “I,” they are missing one MAJOR contributing factor….it was this family’s CHOICE to change the spelling of their surname. 

The bottom line is that it doesn’t matter what you, Mr. del Valle or I think, this is how they chose to spell their name.  I have copies of original documents, i.e., marriage certificates for ALL the family with the exception of Emily, (who did not marry), I have death certificates for ALL the family and gravestones pictures for ALL the family, (except Consuelo, who is buried at Kimbolton Castle, England), that show they represented their surname as Yznaga.  I might also add that some of these documents contain their signature as written by their own hand and they signed Yznaga. 

Fernando del Valle y Lersundi may be a noted Basque Historian, and he may have researched their ancestors….but he did not take into consideration that many of these families, including Antonio Modesto’s, chose to change or keep the spelling of their surname…..Yznaga.  Because it was the family’s choice to change their surname and because they are not here to defend themselves, we should respect their wishes and leave their name as Yznaga….as it was used in Marriage, Business, Death and Gravestones. 

I just looked at the link you referenced.  Just something to think about….if…after all his research….Mr del Valle used the incorrect spelling for Antonio Modesto’s wife, Ellen Maria Clement (not Clemens as he listed), isn’t it possible that he doesn’t know the correct spelling that this family CHOSE to use?  Also, he has listed Consuelo’s wedding year incorrectly.  Yes, these could be a typo’s but then again, he may have incorrect information.  We don’t know FOR  SURE !  Also, Consuelo’s name as listed by Mr. del Valle is not Maria del Consuelo.  To have the genealogy used as a definitive end-all-discussion reference it needs to have correct information.  Consuelo’s name was Francisca Maria de la Consolacion (Consuelo) Yznaga, not Maria del Consuelo.  Her son’s name was not Augusto, it was Angus and Angus isn’t translatable into Spanish. 

What you are doing by changing the spelling of their surname is showing complete and absolute disrespect for this family and all the other families that chose to keep the “Y” in their surname.  They didn’t care whether there was or is a “Y” in the Basque language….this was their CHOICE!!!  What if I were to go and change the spelling of your given name because I thought the “J” should be a “G?”  You wouldn’t like it because that’s not your name, and I wouldn’t do it because I respect the fact that your parents CHOSE to spell your name as Jorge and not George.

To say there is no “Y” in the Basque language is not only incorrect, it is ludicrous, as there are many documents originating from the Basque regions of Spain that show the name as Yznaga.

1gamingangel
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Hi Diana!

I think the Moderator might have enough info now to research the matter, and hopefully this will bring you some relief and closure.

I don't think the last poster was doing what you think he might be doing, i.e. actively going out and "changing information" on the Internet, thereby disrespecting your ancestors. I think, he was trying to share historical information as he was aware of it, and offered a web link to back up what he was saying. In other words, I think he was trying to help. You don't find it helpful, that's okay. :) And by all means, this is a fascinating topic; share the conflicting information you have.

I took a look at the GeneaStar link that you originally identified, and noted that the information on that page was published by an individual user named Tim Dowling. He has an ENORMOUS family tree (I think it was something like half a million people?), and I'm willing to bet that this has been a genuine labor of love that has taken exhaustive years to generate, and I think it's really quite special that he (or someone?) wrote a biography of a relative. If you haven't tried to make contact before, he might be very happy to modify his post with your information, and learn more about an ancestor. He also has a 5 star rating, which means that he has been fairly reliable in terms of posting his sources. He may have record of where he got his info, allowing you to follow the trail one step further, yet.

Jean-Yves (our Moderator), of course, will have the most sage advice for you. No matter how you get there, though, I truly wish you nothing but good resolution and happiness!

Take care,
Meg
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Hi Meg,

Thank you for responding so quickly.  Regarding the last poster that you say is trying to “help,” I would like to offer further proof in the form of copies of original New York Times articles where the correct spelling of the Yznaga surname, as shown in the articles, has been indiscriminately altered on Rootsweb, Find a Grave and many other websites.  Find a Grave recently removed the memorials that he created for this family due to his incorrect spelling of their surname even though he had posted a picture of the gravestone with the correct spelling of Yznaga.  Wikipedia, The Peerage and National Portrait Gallery/UK, to name just a few, have also changed the name from Iznaga to Yznaga when provided with proof.

Please see the Wikipedia Talk page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Consuelo_Montagu,_Duchess_of_Manchester, very interesting, wherein the representative states (and this is just one of the quotes)….” I've changed the last name from Iznaga to Yznaga, which is how the last name was originally shown in the article until it was changed within the last year or two. Yznaga appears to be the more common usage in reliable sources ([1] [2] [3]), and is how the name appears in original documents. Ancestry.com sources that use the Iznaga last name shouldn't be relied on - Ancestry.com should rarely be used as a reliable source, and some of the documents actually appear to have been copied and changed (for example, the New York Times article shown on Ancestry.com spells Iznaga, though the original New York Times article uses Yznaga). ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 20:17, 12 July 2015 (UTC)” 

Please see attachment. 

Thanks for being patient with me.  I will try really hard not to write to you again :)

Sincerely,
Diana
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Hi Meg,

Not sure if the attachment went.  Hope you don't mind but I'm resending just the attachment.
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Hey Meg,

I'm sorry to keep sending you these posts.  I finally decided to read the file types on the bottom and converted the file from word to a pdf file.  Hope it goes through.  If it doesn't could you please let me know?

Thanks,

Diana
1gamingangel
1gamingangel
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Hi Diana!

Oh MY goodness! I did NOT realize the history you had already established with Izzy. I see it now on the WikiTalk page That explains your reaction a lot now, doesn't it!  ;D

I'm sorry to say, if you were trying to attach a document, I do not believe it was successful. I know how frustrating that can be. All I can see in the first of your most recent posts is text and a wiki link. The next posts contained only text.  :-\

I have posted images before, such as a screen shot image that I took on my phone, and that was VERY easy. I understand that you looked up the allowable file types, though, and if PDF was on there, I can't imagine what may have gone wrong! I always defer to the Expert (Jean-Yves) when stumped. Maybe he can help pave the way.

Hopefully talk soon!
Meg
dianatx
female
Messages : 24
Hi Meg,

I'm going to give it one more shot at attaching the file.  It has been saved as a pdf file so hopefully it will go through.

You mention my "history" with Izzy (Jorge) but it's NOTHING compared to his "history" of altering websites on the Internet.  He cannot, to this day, accept the fact that they did not want to spell their name as Iznaga....they wanted to spell it Yznaga. 

Thanks again Meg, I will try Really, REALLY hard not to write again  :>)

Diana
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